The Secret to Writing Twists Readers Will Never Forget with Bestselling Author J.T. Ellison

Previous episode with Aaron Philip Clark
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Bestselling thriller author, J.T. Ellison shares how she create the unforgettable twists and characters that define her work. 

Whether you're an aspiring writer or an experienced author, this episode is packed with actionable writing tips, insider insights, and inspiration from one of the best in the genre.

1. How to create plot twists that are surprising yet inevitable and avoid “cheat” endings.
2. J.T. Ellison’s process for juggling multiple points of view in thriller writing.
3. The importance of trusting your subconscious and revisiting earlier sections of your story for foreshadowing opportunities.

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Transcript

J.T. Ellison

David Gwyn: Hey, everyone. In this episode, I'm joined by bestselling thriller author JT Ellison, and we're going to dive into the art of crafting unforgettable twists in your stories. With a track record of page Turners, including her latest novel, a very bad thing. J.T. Ellison, listen is going to pull back the curtain on her process for developing those all-important twists.

And for creating characters who your readers will love reading. Whether you're wrestling with plot, or you're struggling to add layers to your writing. This episode is packed with practical advice and actionable insights.

I'm David Gwyn, a writer navigating the world of traditional publishing during the second season of the thriller one-on-one podcast. 

We're going to continue our focus on building the skills necessary to write the kind of thrillers that land you, an agent and readers. During the season, I'll be sharing some of my own insights while also talking to agents authors and other publishing professionals about the best way to write a novel. If you want the experts secrets Thriller 101 is where you're going to find them. Last time on the podcast. 

I talked to Aaron, [00:01:00] Phillip Clark, about his approach to writing stories that aren't just exciting, but also meaningful. He also talked about revising, familiar plots and do something fresh and new and how to master the art of collaboration.

Aaron Philip Clark: Because plot is cool, but you know, it's, it's really just like, it gets us from point A to B, you know it's more about like what happens during that time period to the characters. How did they change? Because if there's no change or growth, or let's say that they decide not to change, but everybody else has to bend to their will, you know, where's the conflict?

David Gwyn: That episode is linked in the description. If you want to check it out. JT Ellison is the New York times and USA today bestselling author of more than 30 novels and the Emmy award-winning co-host of the literary TV show a word on words. She also writes contemporary fantasy under the pen name. 

Joss Walker.

With millions of books in print, her work has won critical acclaim and prestigious awards. Her titles have been optioned for television and published in 28 countries. All right, let's get into the interview.

J.T. Ellison: [00:02:00] Readers don't like to be cheated. They want to be misled. They don't, necessarily want to be tricked. 

David Gwyn: So, JT, thanks so much for being here. I'm really excited to chat

with you.

J.T. Ellison: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here too. 

David Gwyn: I really want to talk to you about your, your new novel, A Very Bad Thing. Um, can you tell us a little bit about what it's about 

J.T. Ellison: Sure. So the tagline for this book is Who Killed Columbia Jones? And it's story of a world famous mega bestselling author named Columbia Jones, who is on tour for her newest book, Ivory Lady. And, um, on the last night of tour in Denver. She sees somebody in the crowd faints. And the next morning she 

is found dead in a 

pool 

of blood.

it

David Gwyn: So tell me a little bit about where this, where the story came from. 

J.T. Ellison: came from. an idea that I got talking to an editor on Twitter who was wondering why President [00:03:00] Biden couldn't like pick up and go to an event in the middle of the Midwest. There had been some sort of tragedy. I think it was a Curious why he couldn't just go and, and why it was gonna take several days.

And I used to work in the White House, so I actually chimed in and explained how the crazy, you know, bits of advance work and how you have to, you know, go in and do all of stuff ahead of time and you have to have ingress and egress and security sweeps and make. Sure. There's no bombs and all of that. And also, you know, make sure that the food is right and make sure that the tea is proper and just all it's, there's a million details to advance work. And it's not something you just put somebody on a plane and have them show up. And especially the leader of the free world, you've got to be kind of careful with them. And, and I said to her, I said, imagine the worst thing that could happen on tour. You know, you send an author out on tour and something happened to them.

Well, this is exactly what you don't want to have happen for your president. And I went, wow, that's a story. [00:04:00] That's really a story. That's, that would be a really interesting story. But yeah, I was 

obviously quite reluctant to 

write it because you

know, we never want something bad to happen to an author on tour.

That would be awful.

David Gwyn: Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. It's so funny. I've talked to a lot of authors and usually there's this like long drawn out process where they're like, it was like kind of this and something else happened. And it sounds like for you, like the light bulb just kind of switched on on this story, which is really cool.

So what was that process like writing this? I mean, how was it like all of a sudden the light bulbs switched on and you immediately had the whole thing planned out or did it take a little bit of finessing?

J.T. Ellison: Well, it took a lot of finessing because this book actually has eight points of view and the main character is dead. So she doesn't get to tell her story. And, you know, obviously the question, who killed Columbia Jones also needs the, the correlated question, why was Columbia Jones killed? [00:05:00] And the, the story is actually, like I said, from eight points of view, and I was reading, I was, one of them is a reporter.

And so I was doing some research on how to be a reporter because I'm not a reporter. And, I read John McPhee's book draft number four. Now the opening chapter, John McPhee's a New Yorker writer, just absolutely brilliant nonfiction uh, journalist. And, and I was reading about how he was laying on the table, looking up into the sky, trying to figure out how he was going to tell a story about this main character of his story without it becoming, you know, really pedantic and everything. And he, he hit upon the idea of telling the person's life through the eyes of the people around them. Really great investigative technique. It gives a lot of life to the story. And I went, Oh, that's what I've got to do. So the book is actually a wheel. The spokes of the wheel are the different points of view.

And in the center, holding it all together [00:06:00] is Columbia Jones. So it took a lot of coordinating. And when you have that many points of view, and it's a thriller, you have to make sure that you're not repeating information and, you know, people, everybody's getting little bits of the story at the same time, but it's their experience with 

how this woman's death affects them that the book is really about.

David Gwyn: Yeah, so interesting and I, I love listening to you talk about the, the process here, which I want to dig into a little bit. So. I'm, I'm really curious. You're, you're known for your plot twists and, and it's kind of a thing that, that is popular in thrillers and obviously that you do so well.

And so I'm really curious now that I feel like I've got a little bit of a taste of this long, maybe drawn out, maybe lots of coordinating process that you have to go through. What, what is your process for developing plot twists in your stories?

J.T. Ellison: So, you know, it's interesting. I don't like to outline. So I have a basic [00:07:00] structure with, you know, four turnings, I call them. So 

instead of a three act structure, I do a 

four act structure and I actually do a six act when we really get 

into the nitty 

gritty of it. And that way we aren't

getting sloggy middles.

You know, lots of stuff is still happening in the middle, so we're not just like, you know, Okay, here's your cool opening and let's just skip to the end. I want there to be a lot of turns. The twists come organically. Once I'm, once I kind of know, you know, okay, this is happening, and then this, and then this, as long as I have my four turns, I just let the process go.

And I, I write every day. I touch the book every day. I find a way to, you know, be thinking about it. The problem with, Authors is, you know, 

our office is our head. 

So we never, we never get to step away from it 

for real. 

Um, so I'm always thinking about it, but for this one, I 

actually also wrote large swaths of each character's story. 

and their experience with Columbia's [00:08:00] death and what it meant for them. And it took a while to actually figure out whose story this is, because obviously it's Columbia's tale. But the main character is really Riley Carrington, the reporter. And she was not supposed to be the main character at all. She was just a part of the story. And when she came on screen, she was the she stole the show. I mean, she absolutely stole the show. So that's always fun. And I try to be as open to the story as I can and not try to force it into its own box because it really does. take on a life of its own and things change. 

It's, it's a very, um, organic process for me. 

David Gwyn: And so talk to me a little bit more about the, the, twist that you're finding. So it sounds like you have some scope of what's happening and then the twists are 

happening Kind of as you're writing, but is it, is it really as you're writing or did these things like pop up as you're driving your car and taking a walk?

Like, where did these things really 

J.T. Ellison: mean, all of the above. [00:09:00]

all 

of the above. I mean, a lot of it is, you know, we're different people from morning to evening. We're different writers. Every time we touch the page, every time we open a manuscript, we're a different person than we were the day before. You know, even if we're, we're being isolated, we're still changed by our environments. over the course of, you know, six, seven, eight months of writing a book. A lot of change happens in the world and in you as a person and as a writer. And, and that certainly finds its way into the book. Right. But the, you know, the best twist for me, if I don't know it's coming and it just comes out, then I know you're going to be surprised because I was surprised.

And that's, you know, those are the days where I just, I, when I shut down at night and I do my mischief managed and everything's finished. I am. Absolutely in love with this process and the days that it doesn't work. I'm not so in love with the process, but it's such a payoff. You know, I'm a golfer and that one golf shot 

per [00:10:00] round is what keeps you coming back. Same with the twists. It's just it's so much fun.

David Gwyn: so are you are you fighting through like through some come up and you're like And like that's not it and like i'll that's not quite it Like or that's something that i've heard before that's something that i've seen in a movie You I mean, are you 

fighting past some of those to get 

J.T. Ellison: oh, sure. Absolutely. I mean, there's no way we can't be influenced by the books and TV and everything that we 

bring in. But, 

We are so individualized, 

right? 

We are our own creative

world unto itself. You can give, and I've done it. I've done this experiment before with an anthology. You can give 14, 15 writers a picture and say, tell me a story about this.

And so they've got, they're all looking at the same picture and you will get 14 completely different stories. It is the coolest thing. And so that's, you know, we can be watching something on TV and be 

like, wow, that's a really cool twist. [00:11:00]

But when we apply it to our own work, it comes out completely different. 

That's the, that's the

cool thing about art. We, you know, 

the creative process, nobody can do what we do. 

We're the only person that can tell the story. 

David Gwyn: yeah, and do you, do you find that then once you've hit those points that you're going back and like dropping hints and foreshadowing or do you find that that kind of has already, the groundwork has already been laid leading into that, that twist?

J.T. Ellison: That's a great question because when you are an organic writer and you're banging your head against the wall and you do have a 

twist that just presents 

itself, you can always find the tie to 

it. 

is way back earlier that

you wrote, and you're like, I have no idea why I'm writing this. Why is this building here?

What, you know, what is, why is it so important? Why am I married to the idea of this building being in this place? Why have I even written about it? It has nothing to do with the story. Oh, well, there was a murder that took place there. You know, ah, I can have a murder there. You know, [00:12:00] it's really, I, I, and I've been doing this long enough to recognize my subconscious puts things in place. And when I get blocked, I go back and I start 

reading and I see 

where my subconscious puts something that will help me unblock later on.

David Gwyn: Yeah. So I'm gonna ask you a hard question here, but I think, I think you've got, I think you've got what it takes to handle this one. So 

what, what do you think it is about a twist that makes it satisfying for readers? Like, is there something that you're like, like even all twists or most twists, like that are good, do something like what, what makes them satisfying and other times makes them like

feel cheap.

J.T. Ellison: So there's a couple of things. So a good twist is surprising yet inevitable. When you read it, you're like, of course. Of course. Oh my gosh. It was there all along, right? That's a good twist. It's the twist that comes out of left field that has nothing to do with the story. And it [00:13:00] clearly the author is like, I have no idea how to finish this book.

I'm just going to throw something in. And that's usually in the form of um, a stranger has committed the murder that nobody has talked about at all, know, this character hasn't even been mentioned on the page. I, I read a book like that once, the last page they solved the murder 

and the murderer was not a part 

of the story. It was, and I was like, wait, that's a 

cheat, 

right? Readers don't like to be cheated. They want to be misled. They don't, want to be tricked.

David Gwyn: Okay, let's pause there for a second. 

I want to take a moment to reflect on what J.T. Ellison shared about developing twists, because she just gave us a masterclass on how great twists should feel surprising yet inevitable, and that we should avoid the dreaded cheat ending for aspiring authors. This means thinking about how you can plant subtle clues earlier in your story that make the twist feel earned. Without giving it away. So I have a challenge for [00:14:00] you. 

Look at your own writing and think about the twist that you're developing. Is there a place where you can subtly foreshadow it? Without entirely giving it away. Think of it as like laying those bread crumbs, it's just enough to mislead your readers. But still, when they look back, they'll be able to connect the dots.

And if you can pull that off, your twist will be just as powerful as J.T. Ellison's in the next part of the interview. 

We're going to dive into how she crafts her characters and how she balances intricate plotting with organic discovery.

So let's get back into the interview.

Oh, I love that. I love that. They want to be misled. They don't want to be tricked. I think that is. that really does, I feel like twists are those things that, especially in this genre, people are, are hunting for like a good twist in their writing. They're always like churning for that moment.

And a lot of times that's the thing that, that gets people interested in,, writing in this genre is, are the twists that they read in books. And I feel like it is such a balance, of giving people [00:15:00] enough that it feels, like you said, like that it feels inevitable. um, But not so much that it feels obvious. that that is such that fine line that people 

are 

J.T. Ellison: it is. 

David Gwyn: searching for. 

J.T. Ellison: Razor's I mean, you're, you're walking the razor's edge and you're not wearing shoes and it ain't good. 

David Gwyn: This is so, I could talk to you all day. This is, this has been so much fun. 

Um, what's so, so just before we wrap up here, can you, um, tell us a little bit about what you're working on now? 

J.T. Ellison: I can, I just finished my next book. , it is gone to copy edit. So it's 

literally just been finished 

It's just going into the editorial process. And it's the story of a woman who goes home to help her dad after he falls in an accident and finds out that her mother um, was not killed in a car accident the way she thought that she was actually murdered. 

David Gwyn: Wow. 

J.T. Ellison: Yeah, 

it's different. It doesn't have eight points of

view. It has two points of view and a monster narrator. And it's, it's a much more insular Gothic kind of book. I, [00:16:00] I like to, I like to weave, you know, I like to do a huge 

big cast and then I like to do a small cast, you know, just really get nitty gritty into the story. 

David Gwyn: that's fun. 

Very cool. So um, my last question for you is just where can people find you? Where can people look you up? 

J.T. Ellison: Awesome. So, my website's JT Ellison. com. Uh, speaking of that book that's coming out, I've been live writing it on my sub stack, the Creative Edge. And it's a, it's a series called 22 steps. I realized that there were actually 22 steps in my process to writing a book from concept to publication day. We're on step 13 right now, just finished the revision. And so step 14 will be 

the copy edit. And, um, I'm also a thriller chick on most of the social media. 

David Gwyn: Yeah, very cool. And I'll, I'll link to that sub stack too because I found it leading up to this. 

it's, very, very cool. So people, if you're listening, definitely go check this out. I will link to it in, in the description. So JT, this was so much fun.

I really appreciate you taking the time to chat. 

J.T. Ellison: Thank You I appreciate it. 

David Gwyn: Okay. And [00:17:00] that's it today. We learned some incredible strategies from JT Ellison, from crafting twists that feel both surprising and inevitable. To trusting your subconscious to guide your storytelling. We also explored her process for weaving multiple perspectives into a narrative and balancing intricate plotting with creative freedom. If there's one thing to take away from this conversation. It's this trust your process. 

Let your story evolve organically. And always think about your readers experience. Thank you so much for hanging out with me. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to share it with a fellow writer or leave a review and don't forget to check out J.T. Ellison's latest, novel, a very bad thing. 

Remember to keep writing because publishing happens to the people who don't give up. I'll see you next time.