Thriller 101
A podcast for readers and writers of thriller, mystery, suspense, and crime fiction.
Thriller 101
Writing Your Series & Developing Dynamic Characters with Author Stephen Spotswood
Find out more about Stephen Spotswood
Listen to the episode with Douglas Corleone
Come hang out for an interesting conversation with author Stephen Spotswood as he shares his creative process behind his successful Pentecost Parker thriller series.
In this episode, Stephen shares his writing tips for crafting engaging mystery series characters that evolve across multiple books while maintaining reader interest.
Whether you're interested in the writing techniques, genre-blending strategies, or the practical aspects of planning a multi-book series, this interview delivers valuable insights for writers at any stage.
Discover how Spotswood approaches the revision process, balances character development with plot mechanics, and maintains his passion for characters throughout a long-term writing project.
- Series Development Strategy: Learn how to plan and structure a multi-book series
- Genre-Blending Techniques: Discover how Spotswood successfully combines elements of classic mystery, hard-boiled crime, and noir to create a unique series that stands out in the marketplace
- Revision Process for Character Evolution: Understand Spotswood's two-phase revision approach
from a pure nuts and bolts craft perspective the first draft, I try and get the plot working. The general bones of things are, are elegantly shaped. Or at least have the, the potential for elegance. And then
David Gwyn:Welcome to Thriller 1 0 1. Today We're talking about creating a series genre blending and revising for character development. I'm excited to welcome Steven Spotswood, author of the acclaimed Pentecost and Parker series, which includes his latest release, dead in the Frame, which is out now, I'm David Gwyn, a writer navigating the world of traditional publishing. During this season of the Thriller 1 0 1 podcast, we're gonna continue our focus on building the skills necessary to write the kinds of thrillers that land you and agent and readers. During this season, I'll be sharing some of my own insights. We're also talking to agents, authors, and other publishing professionals about the best way to write a novel. So if you want the Expert Secrets, thriller 1 0 1 is where you're going to find them. Last time on the podcast, I talked to Douglas Corleone. I.
Douglas Corleone:I think that genres are evolving more and more are meshing together. More themes are being related.
David Gwyn:We talked about how to identify and navigate the boundaries between thriller sub-genres, techniques for incorporating meaningful personal themes into commercial thriller writing techniques for incorporating themes into commercial thriller writing, and strategies for crafting memorable twist endings that readers won't forget. That episode is linked in the description if you wanna check that out. In this episode, we're gonna explore how Steven Blends classic mystery tropes with hard boiled crime fiction to create his unique crime series. If you're an aspiring author, wondering how to craft compelling series characters that evolve book after book, or if you've just been struggling with genre boundaries, you will not wanna miss this conversation. Steven shares the blueprint for how he planned a multi-book series from the beginning, how he creates character arcs that develop over individual books, while also contributing to that larger series evolution that readers are looking for. And he also shares his practical approach to drafting and revision. And these insights could be the missing piece in your writing journey. So whether you're drafting your first novel or planning your own series, be sure to hang out until the end where there's a specific writing challenge that will help you implement Steven's approach to character development, into your own work. Steven, thanks so much for being on the Thriller 101 podcast.
Stephen Spotswood:so much for inviting me.
David Gwyn:Yeah, I'm really excited to chat with you. So your novel Dead in the Frame, which will be out by the time people are listening to this, but this is book five in the series, so I need to know, is it still exciting or is it just another day?
Stephen Spotswood:Oh my God. No, it's still super exciting. Like there are
David Gwyn:Nice.
Stephen Spotswood:about writing that never get old. Having a, like, being able to write the series and also just having a new book come out is, is always a thrill.
David Gwyn:Yeah, cool.
Stephen Spotswood:has not gotten old at all.
David Gwyn:Yeah, very cool. So, can you tell us what this story's about?
Stephen Spotswood:Sure. So, so for those of you who, for listeners who might not know what the entire series is about Pentecostal Parker is a modern take on the golden age mystery with like a heavy dose of hard blooded crime. The series takes place in New York City in the 1940s. where Lillian Pentecost is the most sought after detective in the city, if not the country. She's an eccentric genius who's becoming more and more limited because of her battle with multiple sclerosis. And so she leaves her legwork to her right hand woman, Willow Jean Will Parker. That's sort of like the, the pitch for the series. And like, the series has allowed me over the course of several books to play with like, old school mystery tropes. And so Dead in the Frame tackles the trope of our detective is arrested for a crime that she did not commit. So Dead in the Frame sees Lillian Pentecost arrested and jailed for the murder of Jessup Clincannon, who has been a character in previous books in the series. And Will, her, her right hand woman is left her own, basically, to try and solve this crime you know, before her boss is sentenced, to life in prison. So yeah, so that's, that is the, that is book five.
David Gwyn:Nice. So, so tell me a little bit about this genre, because it feels to me like a blend of crime, noir, and mystery. Do I, how, how close am I?
Stephen Spotswood:you're very, you're very, very close. So it's deeply inspired by Rex Stout's Nero Wolf series which is a series of mysteries he wrote from the 1930s through the 1970s. And he was, I don't know if he was the only, but he was definitely the most prominent and prolific writer who took the old school English murder mystery, the like genius detective solving crimes from his desk. Let's get everybody in the room at the end and point the finger. And he combined it with the hard boiled American voice. And so I kind of took that template, added some, well I didn't add noir so intentionally, but I said it in the, you know, starting in 1945 and Will Parker, my lead character, is queer and in 1945, that's just sort of, like, the noir just happens. Because the world just gets, like, more difficult and darker for her in many ways. So, like, so yeah, there's noir in there. And then I like adding, like, a little bit of pulp adventure. And like, just to push it outside of the bounds of, like, straight up noir. Crime realism it allows me to have like some great action scenes and hopefully a little bit of fun.
David Gwyn:Yeah. Yeah, it's super cool. It's so I, I run a community for writers who are trying to get traditionally published, you know, grab an agent and a publisher. And we talk about genres a lot. And, and one of the things that I think a lot of writers are trying to, like, fit into a genre, like, they're trying to, like, be a genre so they're marketable and that an agent knows what they're, what they are, but I tell them a lot. I think that this kind of new blending of genres, especially in thriller fiction, and kind of like the thriller, mystery, noir, crime, suspense, like all, The blending of, of these genres is really where we get cool stuff. And I think that this is like a case in point here where you're taking, you know, historical fiction and, and like grabbing a little bit of everything and mixing it together. And it makes this really unique story. And I think that's so cool.
Stephen Spotswood:Okay, thank you. I, I
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Stephen Spotswood:like I'm I, I do think like some of the most interesting stuff is when people cross the line between, between thriller and mystery or, or horror and mystery or things like that yeah.
David Gwyn:Yeah, that's awesome. So this is, this is book five. Like we mentioned, I want you to take us back to book one if you can, like take us all the way back to, to when you're writing book one. Point that this would be a series? I mean, did you always know that these characters in the world would kind of evolve this way or did that come like later on?
Stephen Spotswood:since it was so inspired by Nero Wolf and Rexalt wrote, oh, gosh, 60 some novels and short stories between the
David Gwyn:Oh, wow. Oh,
Stephen Spotswood:could write that many, I hope to someday but no, I had the intention of it being a series from the start. I at least gave myself The open door to let it be a series like like in fortune favors the dead, the first book in the series, it's like the classic it's like a murderous meet cute between Lillian and Will it sort of introduces everybody and I give them, like, yeah, this is, so this is deeply inspired by Nero Wolf, but it's been compared a lot to Agatha Christie and it's also inspired by Sherlock Holmes. and I gave them a Moriarty in Fortune Favors the Dead. I gave them somebody who, who is smart and cunning and morally grey enough that it makes rooting against her difficult. And I was like, here we go, this is a, this is, they didn't, and you know, that, that was an open ended plot thread. I'd hoped to, to carry on. And like, by the time I had finished the first draft of Fortune Favors the Dead, I had several books planned out. I
David Gwyn:I
Stephen Spotswood:at first it was like a five book arc. And then it sort of like grew a little bit. Like I, was like, no, I cannot do this in a book, in one book. I expanded it into that kind of thing. But like I knew, I knew that Lillian Pentecost was going to be arrested the murder of somebody. that one of the books is going to deal with Will having to, like, prove her innocence. I knew that, like, in 2018. I don't, I did not have any, many other details. But I knew that because I sort of, like, had these old school tropes that I wanted to, to play with and expand and subvert. And that was one of them. Like the second book in the series, Murder Under Her Skin is You know, big city detectives go to a small town, solve a murder. The next one in the series is like a serial killer hunt in, in 1940s New York. So yes, so yeah, short, the short story, short version of that long rambling response is yes, I did have like this planned as a series from the start.
David Gwyn:think that's so cool. And so it sounds like to me and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like to me, you had these characters that you developed that you thought were really interesting and compelling, which, which they are. And then it sounds like you just. You kind of thought about different, whether it was the tropes you wanted to subvert or, or, or like the stories you wanted to tell, and then you just infused those characters. Like you were like, Oh, serial killer story. Like that would be fun to write. Let me bring my characters that I've got into that story. Is that kind of how it went?
Stephen Spotswood:A little bit, yeah It was also, like, the creation of the characters in that first book sort of helped define what the next books would look like. Like, the fact that I made Will, like, spend five years at a traveling circus not, like, that's deeply defined, like, the palette that I draw from in the series. And it meant that, like, in the next book, like, she would go back to her roots and solve the murder of a friend at the circus. So yeah, it was also, and also it wasn't just like the tropes that were defining the arc of things. So like one of the defining characteristics of the Nero Wolf series is that while the world around them changes throughout the decades, the characters stay the same. The characters 1930 are the same ones from 1970 pretty much. And I, that, I didn't want that. I wanted, I wanted progress. I wanted them to grow. I wanted them to change. Also, by by giving Lillian Pentecost multiple sclerosis, I kind of put a ticking clock on things.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Stephen Spotswood:on her ability to do her job, but also Will's to, like, become a better detective. So, like, that's also, like, a thing that defines, like, each book is Just how they change, like what the trauma of going through, what they go through does to them, what lessons they learn really sort of has shaped where I get to go.
David Gwyn:Yeah. It's really interesting. And like you mentioned, you, you wanted your characters, characters to grow and change. And I feel like that's something that either happens or doesn't in, in, in series. And then that's one of the things like kind of a hallmark of a series sometimes is that like, well, the characters are kind of the same in each book. They don't really grow and evolve. And so can you talk a little bit about that process of, you know, you have this series where you have these characters that, that people enjoy and that you like writing about. They have this kind of like overarching arc that they're on as characters, but also within each book, you know, they have like this character arc. Can you talk about how you manage that and think through that? Yeah.
Stephen Spotswood:from, okay, from a pure nuts and bolts craft perspective I work through, like the first draft, I try and get the plot working. Like I try and make sure that the order of events work, that the clues are laid out. in the correct order that, you know, the general bones of things are, are elegantly shaped. Or at least have the, the potential for elegance. And then, and then the next draft and like subsequent drafts, I go in and I ask, okay, how are the, how is the events of this book impacting Will and Lillian on an emotional level? Like how is, how is Will reacting to Her boss being in jail of having to rely on her herself in a way she has never had to before, of the potential that of like the, the, the sky high stakes that she is playing with. How is Lillian dealing with incarceration? How, how is her illness dealing with incarceration? And, and that kind of thing. So that, that is sort of like, that is how I shape sort of the arc of. Of, like, the individual book, as for, like, how I go from, like, the whole series, like, book to book, I, I do, like, they, they do make the same mistakes, like, over and over again but they're, they make them on a different, like, they keep learning and they just sort of, like, they make the same mistakes but not in the same way. They make the mistake, they fail better each time. But they are, but, you know, it's like, they have, you know, Will and Lillian have their own personalities, they have their own drawbacks, they have the things, their blind spots, and those don't go away after, you know, several years and multiple adventures and murders and gunfights.
David Gwyn:And that's, and that's, what's going to make them feel human in a lot of ways too, you know?
Stephen Spotswood:I hope so.
David Gwyn:Cool. So I, I also, I got to call back to this cause this is, this is my new motto, the, the potential for elegance. I think that is like, that is the goal of every first draft, that it has some. Some potential for elegance.
Stephen Spotswood:yeah, like, it, you just want it, you know, I whoever described it as like, you know, as using the sculptor metaphor is
David Gwyn:Yeah,
Stephen Spotswood:this block of rock, block of stone. You just wanna get it into a shape that looks like the story you wanna tell. And then like with each subsequent draft, I can like smooth it out and smooth it out. And like once it's done, I can, you know, a reader doesn't think about like that it's gone through like 20 drafts. They just I think it appeared that way all at once and I'm happy to let them except on podcasts where I'd, where I admit to it,
David Gwyn:exactly. So I gotta know, what are you working on now? What's the project you're into now?
Stephen Spotswood:I spent so I, so I know there will be, there will be some kind of gap between books five, book five and six. I dunno how long it's gonna be. And so I have taken, I took much of the summer and fall working on a contemporary. Murder Mystery Thriller totally outside of the Pentecostal Parker world. And I have, like, one more decent revision to go in the next, like, month. And then hopefully, hopefully that will, like, go out to, to editors. My agent will send that out sometime. early in 2025. That's the hope.
David Gwyn:Nice.
Stephen Spotswood:today, very specifically today I was working on a, a Pentecostal Parker short story. Which I've, I've never written before, but I had an idea I, I, all of my launch, all of my book launches have been with a one more page books in Falls Church, Virginia. And they're, I, they're wonderful. My wife is also an author and all of her launches have been there as well. And I offer, like, I will go and like, you can order signed books from them. And I will go and I will sign them and then they'll get mailed out across the country.
David Gwyn:Cool.
Stephen Spotswood:to do something as like a promotion for For pre orders for this newest book, so I'm like, you know what, I'm, maybe I have a short story in me that I can provide, if you, in, provide access to, like if you pre order the book from One More Page, they'll, you will not just get the book, but you'll get like a code that you can then go online and you will have access to the book. A short story which I, I had the idea, like, this week. I started writing it today. It, it takes place the fir in the, in the first six months of Will's with Lillian Pentecost, which is like a, an area of time that I have not explored at all because
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Stephen Spotswood:year time jump within that first book. So, I'm, I'm having a, I've been having a ball today writing it. I
David Gwyn:That's a fun
Stephen Spotswood:It has the potential for elegance. I hope, if, if it succeeds, if, if the potential becomes actuality, then hopefully other people will be, will read it too, and, and hopefully have as much fun as I am.
David Gwyn:Yeah. Very cool. And so as somebody now who you've, you've got this series going, but you're also doing some like standalone stuff. Can you talk a little bit about like what advice you'd have for people who. are thinking about embarking on a series. Like, is there any kind of either advice you'd give or like checks that they should think about? Like, Hey, yeah, this does have series potential. Like, are there anything that you can have them kind of like, as they're sitting here thinking about, do I want to take on a series or not? What, what type of type of advice you'd have?
Stephen Spotswood:Oh boy I'm sure there's a lot of, of publishing technical advice of like, series are hard to sell, harder to sell there's advice that an agent would give but the advice I would give as a writer is don't think about that part think about, like, do you enjoy these characters enough? Like, do you, do you have fun? Do you honestly, like, love coming back to them and writing them? Because if you are, if everything goes Everything goes according to plan. You are going to be writing them for however many years and forever many, you know, thousands and tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of words. So you, you're, the amount of love you have for writing them will, hopefully, will directly translate into how much readers will enjoy reading them.
David Gwyn:That's super cool. I think, I think that kind of check on, you know, you might feel invested in them now, but But you've got to really be invested.
Stephen Spotswood:yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, think of it, like, yeah, plan it, like, be like, can I, can I imagine, like, the next five books? Like, and you don't have to stick to it. I, I didn't. Like, I, I have deviated from that original plan. But like, Just think about it and make sure that you have, you have that gas in your tank.
David Gwyn:Yeah, yeah, that's really cool. That's awesome. So my last question for you is just where can people find you? Where can people look you up?
Stephen Spotswood:You can find my, find me on my website at stephenspotswood. com. I am also on various social medias under Playwright Steve. Because I started my career as a playwright. And which social medias are changing and ever, ever changing day by day, depending on how the world is
David Gwyn:Yeah, you're not alone.
Stephen Spotswood:Yes. Yeah. So that's where you can find me.
David Gwyn:Cool. Awesome. Well, Steven, this was so much fun. I learned a lot. This was this was really really cool. And And yeah, for people who are listening go check out Dead in the Frame. Great read, great series. Well done. And and yeah, thanks for for being here. Thanks for chatting with us.
Stephen Spotswood:you. Thanks for inviting me.
David Gwyn:Alright, and that's it. I was particularly intrigued by Steven's approach to drafting and revision when he explained how he works through the first draft to get the plot working, to make sure he has the right order of events and that the clues are laid out in the correct order. And then on the next draft, he goes in and thinks about how the events of this book are changing and impacting the characters on an emotional level, this double layered approach. First focusing on plot and then deepening character development. It gives us a useful framework for revision. By separating these parts of our story, we can really ensure that the plot of our book, which is so important in this genre, is really solid. But then we get the emotional resonance of our characters in that revision So here's your thriller 1 0 1 challenge for the week. Take your protagonist and map out how they might evolve across three hypothetical books. Even if you're doing a standalone, you should still try this. Think about what core traits would remain consistent. What mistakes might they make? Book over book I. What would their relationships and worldview look like? How would it transform spend? Just, you know, 30 minutes or so exploring this evolution. Even if you're writing a standalone novel, this exercise is gonna help you understand the full scope of your character's growth. Thank you for listening to Thriller 1 0 1. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you subscribe and leave a review and I will see you all next time.