Thriller 101
A podcast for readers and writers of thriller, mystery, suspense, and crime fiction.
Thriller 101
What Editors Really Want in 2025 with Chantelle Aimée Osman, Who Provides a Sneak Peek Inside Simon & Schuster's Newest Imprint
You’re going to love this exclusive conversation with Chantelle Aimée Osman, Senior Editor at Simon & Schuster's new imprint, Simon Maverick.
Chantelle reveals how the publishing industry is evolving to meet indie and hybrid authors where they are.
And why audio is becoming the new frontier that could transform your writing career.
Discover the submission strategies that actually work, learn why your biggest strength might be the one thing editors can't fix, and find out how to reframe rejection in a way that accelerates rather than derails your publishing journey.
Whether you're traditionally published, indie, or still figuring out your path, this conversation offers insider insights that could change everything about how you approach your writing career.
What You'll Learn:
- Why audio publishing is the new gold rush opportunity
- The one manuscript element editors absolutely cannot fix
- How to reframe rejection as progress toward your goal
Click here to learn more about Chantelle Aimee Osman
Guest Bio: Chantelle Aimée Osman (she/her) is senior editor at Simon & Schuster's newest imprint, Simon Maverick. Prior to joining Simon & Schuster, Chantelle Aimée Osman was an acquiring editor at Amazon Publishing, where she worked with bestselling authors such as Robert Dugoni, Mark Sullivan, Suzanne Redfearn, Megan Chance, Victoria Helen Stone, and Simon Tolkien. Previously, she helped found Agora Books, an imprint of independent press Polis Books, focusing on crime fiction and horror with unique social and cultural voices—themes which still hold a special place in her heart. At Agora, she acquired and edited authors including John Vercher, Cynthia Pelayo, Gabino Iglesias, and Tori Eldridge. Her titles have won International Latino Book Award medals; been nominated for Edgar, Stoker, Dagger, Anthony, Strand Critics, Macavity, and Lefty awards; and been featured in NPR, the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, the New York Post, the Los Angeles Review of Books, the Chicago Tribune, Reader’s Digest, Oprah Daily, People, and Entertainment Weekly. She was named a Publishers Weekly Rising Star honoree in 2020, and was the former editor in chief of RT Book Reviews magazine, and is a (recovering) lawyer, and professor at the LIU Brooklyn Polk School of Communication MFA in Writing and Publishing. Chantelle is the author of series of non-fiction writing guides The Quick and Dirty Guides To…, and has published numerous works of short fiction, and served as the editor of multiple anthologies, including the acclaimed Jewish Noir, Volume 2 from PM Press. She has co-written the graphic novels The Awakened and The Rejects, and serves as the creative consultant for the reimagined Dick Tracy comic. She also serves on the Race Equity & Social Justice Committee of the Pongo Poetry Project, a non-profit organization that uses personal poetry writing to heal youth who have experienced trauma and other difficult and complicated experiences; as well as serving as the board of Prototype Health, a non-profit organization providing high-quality, cost-effective, integrated primary health care for uninsured, underinsured, and needy individuals. When not buried in a book, you can find her wherever her Boston Terriers, Tamerlane and Henry, and her cat, Lafitte, want to go. She's online at chant
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Chantelle, welcome to the Thriller 1 0 1 podcast. It is great to have you back.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:It is a pleasure, David. Thank you for always having me on.
David Gwyn:Yeah. So before we get into it, I, I, I just wanna tell people you know, you're a great editor. So many insights on the publishing industry, and you're an absolute pleasure to talk to. So I always really enjoy our conversations and I'm really looking forward to this one.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:well, I I will definitely only disappoint now.
David Gwyn:I set the bar really high, but that's all right. We'll, we'll be all right. You'll exceed it. I, I know you will.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:Carry me. I know it.
David Gwyn:And yeah. And so for anyone who's listening, I'll, I'll also link our past conversation with Chantelle in the description so you can check out, check those out when, when you're done with this episode. Because they are all gems. I, I feel like I learned so much about the publishing industry because you are, you're one of those people I love to talk to because you're really clear and transparent about things that are happening. And I really love that. I, I think that, you know, you give so many insights for people who, in, in a, in an industry that is. Murky. It, it, you certainly do shine a light on, on just writers having a better understanding of what's going on.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:I appreciate that and it's absolutely my pleasure. I mean, it's just, I, I come from a background where, you know, I worked in politics, I worked in Hollywood, and I worked in publishing,
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:all of these seem to have these like, I don't know gilded gates that, you know, you can only peer through. And honestly, once you get to the other side, it's. frequently not as exciting as you think it's gonna be. So, you know, always, always happy to help inform, because the publishing horror stories that I hear really just come from a lack of either both parties being on the same page or just, you know, a lack of, lack of education about how the industry really works.
David Gwyn:Yeah. Yeah, no, so true. And and that's why I love having you on,'cause I feel like you. Are one of those people who, who has so much experience in the industry and are you're able to, to kind of speak from, from that position of, of having that experience. So let's get into it here. So last time we spoke, you were working at Amazon's Lake Union, and now you're a senior editor at Simon and Schuster's, newest imprint Simon Maverick. First congratulations and, and second, what can you tell us about that imprint?
Chantelle Aimée Osman:Well, it's really exciting because not only are we the newest imprint over at Simon and Schuster, but we're also doing audio which I admit is a new thing for me. So I have been learning a lot in the past few months, and also it's, it's really exciting because we're not only dealing with audio, but. We're primarily focused on indie and hybrid authors.
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:and, and, and it comes I think from kind of twofold. You know, the market is clearly changing and it's very smart of publishers like Simon and Schuster to really want to be where people are consuming media
David Gwyn:Yep.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:audio is one of those places it's on the rise. But it's also really cool because these indie authors and these hybrid authors are doing so much by themselves.
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:They do as much as, you know, almost an entire publisher does, you know, from
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:not only writing the book, which is, you know, the highest mountain to climb to begin with but then figuring out editing and cover and how to get it out there, formatting and just all of those things. And, and figuring out how to do it. And not only doing it, but doing it really, really well,
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:where they're getting in front of. So much more eyes than a lot of, you know, traditionally published books are.
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:being able to step in from this audio side and, and say, Hey, you know, this is, this is a spot where we can help these indie authors because. Audio production is often very cost prohibitive.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:a lot involved. It's also very difficult to, you know, kind of speaking of that gatekeeping, you know, it's, it's hard for an author who's just going solo to, you know, get into some of these retailers to
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:out how to be part of deals and, and all of that stuff. That really does help. And, and so to be able to like. Step in and fill in that role for these already really hardworking authors is really rewarding. And like I said, I'm, I'm learning a lot. It's, it's a whole world out there that I, I have always like, dabbled in because I personally love audio books, but I, I knew very little about the production side. I also, you know, I, I'm talking to so many authors who have, you know, dream cast of narrators, it kind of reminds me of, you know, the, the, the wonder that an author has when they, you know, they, they have a vision in mind for a cover, right. And it's kind of the same thing, like they wanna cast the voices in their head.
David Gwyn:Yep.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:And so it's, it's really wonderful to be on that journey with the author.
David Gwyn:Yeah, I love that. It, it's interesting for, for some reason, I don't know why necessarily, actually, I, I probably do know why. So the, I've talked, I've been talking to, to writers obviously for the podcast and also for the, the community that I run. And it's come up a few times where someone in the community that I run has read the book, the author's book, or listened to it, I should say, in audio format and then. Had the opportunity to ask that author like, oh, did you get to pick? And it's just now as we're having this conversation, I'm realizing that that's come up a few times now in those conversations. And I think it is, it's one of those things, it's like now writers who used to think about their cover and casting the, the movie versions of their characters, now they also get that added bonus of potentially casting like an audio side as well. So talk a little bit about your role. Like, what does it, what does it look like? So I'm guessing, you know, someone comes to you are, are you seeking people out? Are, are people submitting to you? What does it look like?
Chantelle Aimée Osman:it's a little bit of both. And
David Gwyn:Okay.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:I mean, it, it's unique from other imprints in the sense that, you know, like I said, we're dealing with, with only, or mostly hybrid and
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:We have some debuts as well. But it, it's, you know, finding people in different places, which is also really cool.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:I think probably one of the first times we talked, I was still at Agora.
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:books. And, and one of the things that I absolutely loved about that position was, you know, we, we were publishing mostly crime fiction and horror from underrepresented or unique cultural voices. And, and so this was kind of a thing where it was, it was finding people that had not gone a traditional path. And so it's a, it's a little bit similar to what we're doing now in, in finding some of these people because it's not necessarily, you know, the majority of indie authors might not have an agent or so yeah, we get, we get a bunch of agented submissions like any other imprint. But then there's a really fun kind of, you know, if you like falling down a rabbit hole, then this is a job for you. Because, you know, all of us on our team are. Are constantly, you know, even if we're on our own private, like social media, we're going like, oh, does this person have a book coming out? Oh, what's this person talking about? So it's, it's a really fun new discovery method as well. So, so
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:of different places is the answer to your question.
David Gwyn:Yeah. No, that's great. I, I feel like and, and you kinda mentioned this early on, moving to an audio format is, is so smart for a ton of reasons. And, and the main one, you know, finding different voices and, and finding readers where they are, where they want to be, you know, listening to books. Yeah. I, I think, I think that it's such a smart. A, a maybe a pivot, maybe not like a full move, but like a pivot for Simon Schuster to have a have a, a a an imprint like this, I think is really smart. So when you're, when you're thinking about what you're looking to acquire, are you, do you think in genres, do you think in voice? Is it a little bit of everything?
Chantelle Aimée Osman:It's a little bit of everything. I mean, a good book is a good book and,
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:I refuse to let them slip through the cracks if they
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:my desk. And, and we do do print, we have partnered with other imprints at Simon and Schuster to put out print for titles where it seems right to do that. So, you know, print is not necessarily off the table. If you're publishing with us, it's probably just gonna be a, you know, joint, joint venture. But I, I would say generally broadly commercial fiction, genre fiction is, is what most people are listening to. Things like romantic, and like dark academia and like those areas are really, really popular in audio. I'm also really excited because for the first time in. A long time I'm able to deal with nonfiction, which I
David Gwyn:Oh fun.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:kind of harder to find in the indie publishing space. But it's out there and they're kind of my unicorns because, you know, I, I want some of those. I, I love nonfiction and would definitely like to have more of that on my list, but. I, I'm, I'm basically, I, I love this position because I get to play in as many genres as I want to. When
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:at Amazon, it was very difficult for me to, to stay at Lake Union, which was my primary imprint, but I also acquired for Thomas and Mercer.
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:I got some missions for 47 North. I did some Amazon original stories. So I, I have a hard time David staying in my lane. So it, it gives me the opportunity of, hey, if it's just something good you know, I can
David Gwyn:Yeah. Yeah. That's so interesting. So, so I'm, I'm, now, I think I'm getting the kind of scope here. And, and correct me where I go awry.'cause I inevitably will, when I'm kind of saying this back to you, are you taking on, are you taking on submissions for like audio only rights? So these are indie publishers who published a book and now wanna do audio with you? Or are you taking on like full submissions, doing the audio, and potentially the paperback? Or is it a mix?
Chantelle Aimée Osman:it's a, it's a
David Gwyn:Gotcha. Okay.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:all over the place which is what I like about it. And like I
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:new. You know, the announcement for Maverick came in January. Our first books, you know, our first, like, we had a couple, a handful before that, but our, our first, you know, real, strong list of titles started as strong is the wrong word. It wasn't like the other ones were weak, but like a consistently scheduled list started being published in in March,
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:when I also came on board. So realized we're, you know, in July. So we've only really been around for a few months and we're still, you know, I always say, that we're like velociraptors testing the fences in like a really positive, smiling velociraptor kind of way. Because we're just really excited to keep like pushing the barriers, breaking them down, figuring out, you know, what new things we can do. I.
David Gwyn:Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. And, and so where do you see, where do you see, I mean, you've got boots on the ground here in terms of audio. Where do you see audio going in the future? Do you see it continuing to expand? I.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:Oh, I think so. I mean I know I'm not the first person to make this analogy but I don't know who was so, I can't give credit. I, I feel like the audio market that we're in right now reminds me in a lot of ways when eBooks kind of started, like
David Gwyn:Oh yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:up. Like not when they first came out, but like when it started to become the, oh yeah, this is really the new way we're reading.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:I feel like audio books are kind of at that, at that point as well, where, you know, before, and I mean, I'm sure I'm dating myself here, but you know, I, I've always listened to audio books. Like I would actually, there was a store near me when I was, I think like in high school and they, it was like a video store, but it was for audio cassette. And it was rental. You could go in and rent. And I did that all the time, or else you'd be getting it from the library. And I think just like those, those, you know, kind of like going and renting an audiobook from a library wasn't a thing that a lot of people did. And, and it's a very different. today. I mean, I think everybody's listening to them in one way, shape, or
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:I just really love how it makes so much more accessible. For so
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:so I think that's wonderful too. And, and there's just so many positives to it. And, and I will gladly plant my flag flag in the listening to an audio book counts as reading
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:Because I, I think it's great and just, you know, there are so many venues to find audio books. I mean, I know that we all, you know, have our audible accounts, but you know, there's Spotify, there's, there's, you know, my, my library,
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:System has an audiobook like download app.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:So they're, they're just kind of everywhere and it's, it's, they're easy to find. And it's great to be able to, you know, actually ha if you don't have the time and you know, God knows if you have a bunch of kids or
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:like you can't spend that time reading, but you kinda can now.
David Gwyn:Yeah. Yeah. And no, that, that's, that, that's so true. And I, I had a huge revelation when I found out that my library has one of those apps as well, where you can download eBooks or, or audiobooks if you're a library member. It was like a, a revelation for, for me. Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:Like, you know, I encourage everyone to use their libraries and check it out because, you know, especially in, in nowadays, you know, you can, you can. Rent, or, well not really rent, just borrow eBooks and audio from your library.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:you know, it doesn't necessarily have to be a huge financial commitment
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I'm, I'm curious what trends, if any, that you're seeing in the kinds of books or authors that do well in audio format, whether that's like genre type of storytelling, like are there any trends where you're like, I. Maybe you're not looking for it, but you're realizing kind of retroactively, oh wow, this book is doing really well in audio format and that makes sense because of X, Y, and Z.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:That's a, that's a hard question because I, first of all, I don't think anything really ever goes out of style.
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:you know that I love the horror genre and, but that's something where, you know, it was really super popular in the eighties and nineties and then it became like. one read horror, no one was acquiring horror, you know? But guess what? It always was there. Like, it just wasn't in the spotlight, but it was always there. And then a few years ago, people were like, guess what? This is becoming popular again. Like it didn't go anywhere. Same thing with, you know, a lot of these, I'll call them cozier fantasy like legends and lattes, right?
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:That was, and it's a great book, don't get me wrong. Highly recommend all of his series, but stuff has been around that wasn't, you know, particularly groundbreaking. It's been. Always in the fantasy genre, but you know, there are just kind of these ebbs and flows that go you know, and, and you can trace, too much of a nerd. You shouldn't have asked me this question, but like, you could, you, you can trace certain genres to political and economic climates. Zombies always become popular in times of economic downturn or uncertainty. go back to like when the Walking Dead. Was Resurging, you know, like that first started.
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:and look at that, the, the climate that we were in then we're getting a little bit more zombies coming back right now.
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:Of course that completely went away for, you know, lockdown.
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:surrounding times because we didn't want particularly like post-apocalyptic fiction kind of dropped off. Wonder why that was so, so, you know, kind of, I would say probably since 2020 and continuing now and even increasing, I'm seeing a lot of like very escapist.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:Work is really popular. Like going back to, like I said, the romantic or the cozy fantasy or you know, that sort of thing. I, I think I think people are really liking that. And, and using the reading or listening to escape, not necessarily as much as, you know. I, I don't know, for example, historical fiction, which I still think is a very strong genre, but I've seen a shift in the last few years of what types of historical fiction are working. You know, for a while it was this very like. Not that historical fiction should be inaccurate, but it was this like a highly accurate often kind of depressing history that was being told. And, and that was what was popular. And those stories are kind of not working right now in favor of. know, lighter, historical, you know,
David Gwyn:Hm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:romances or you know, I always like to use the, like, you know, woman who got divorced and, and got a cottage you know, suddenly inherited a cottage in
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:From an aunt she'd never heard of. And so she goes there and then. Discovers her diary or a bunch of letters. And so we have like a dual POV with this kind of like escapist story that, that takes two women on a journey. Those kind of things are, are definitely, you know, more popular, I think. And
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:there are exceptions to everything and
David Gwyn:Of course.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:I definitely don't know all of the things, but yeah, I think generally like the more upbeat escapist. Stuff is working a lot better right now.
David Gwyn:You've now had a lot of editing experience. how Has your experience changed the way you approach editing a project, if at all?
Chantelle Aimée Osman:That's a really good question and one that I probably don't have the answer to. One of my. Favorite things to do is either teach teach writing and editing, or, you know, actually get my hands dirty on a manuscript. So yes, I absolutely I love taking on developmental editing work. You know, it's, it's, I find it very rewarding to kind of like be in the trenches with the, with the words you know, in addition to the industry overall. So, you know, always, always open to taking more on. I think one of the reasons that I enjoy being an editor so much I. Is because I'm constantly learning and constantly being surprised whether or not it's like I, I have a ton of random facts at my disposal from just searching a thing in continuity in a book that I'm editing, you know? When were zippers invented, you know, could, could they possibly have had one at this time? So I, I love that and love, you know, falling down, like I said before, like all of those little rabbit holes that you can find out, fall down. So I, I really love the learning process. I'm always learning from every manuscript that I read but, but also just I love being surprised by great writing. So I think that's kind of why I continue to be in love with what I do because I'm always discovering something and a new voice and, and and I think I, if I had a philosophy on editing, which you're kind of like forcing me to come up with one. Well, I, I, I think that if I had one, it is that. The author knows how to tell their story. I think the most important element to a story is voice. You know, I can always fix pacing or, you know, if there's a plot hole, like I'm not gonna say who cares. But that's, these are all things that are fixable. But there's one thing that I cannot edit into a manuscript, and it's the author's passion and the author's voice in telling that story. And so it's really important to me when I edit to make, make sure that that is, you know, sacrosanct and, and. I am, I am showing them the path to get their words or their, their end goal across as, as cleanly and distinctly as possible. But I want them to do it their way and, and not mine. That's not my job.
David Gwyn:Yeah. I, I love that. So I think I already know the answer to this next question, but I'm gonna ask anyway'cause I, I, I love hearing your thoughts on this. So if, if you have a, a writer who's listening to this podcast listening to, to you talk and, and realizes what I'm sure they're realizing, which is I. You know a lot about the industry. You know, you're a talented editor. You, you understand what's going on and where things are headed, you know, a, a great potential fit for, as an, as an editor, whether developmental or to, to pitch you at, at Maverick what advice would you give that writer who's sitting there thinking about okay, I, I want to be, I wanna get my manuscript as ready as possible before going to Chantelle, or before going to an agent or a publisher, whoever it is. What are some things that whether they're common things that you see on your end or just stuff that they should be really thinking about before sending their book out?
Chantelle Aimée Osman:Well, two things. First of all, you know, again, we do accept UN agented submissions and all of our information is available on the Simon Maverick website. So, you know, please feel free if you have something that you think would fit for us, that would be great. I. I'm also also searchable online. I know David's gonna have all of my info and my various websites, so, you know, never hesitate to reach out even with just a question. I, as you might be able to tell listener, I love answering them. So, so it would be my pleasure I think the important things are. Make the book the best book it can be, but you at some point have to walk away from it and rely on other people, whether it's a, you know, an agent or a developmental editor or you know, an editor to publishing house to bring out the best. In that book. But I unfortunately know far too many people who have a book, you know, and they're still polishing chapter one, 10 years in. Right. And chapter one looks nothing like what they dreamt of when they first wrote the book 10 years ago. So, so, you know, you can think too much and do too little in that sense. So I, I think, you know, getting it to a place that you're at least. Somewhat confident you know, making sure it's formatted appropriately. All of that fun stuff that's really boring. You know, but, but then, you know, seek advice from other people, you know, reach out to that agent, reach out, you know, don't. Part of I think being a writer is understanding that there's always something else you could have done, you know, at any part in the process, right? Like, you know, it, it's, it's probably not the comma that you must, that caused an agent to say no. It just wasn't the book of their heart. Like, and the thing is that, and I know I've talked to you about this before, David, but I, I can never emphasize this too much like a no in this industry is not a rejection. It's just a, no, this is not right for me. And, and the best part of being in publishing, whether you're an indie author or published traditionally, or working as an editor, whatever it is, is you are creating a great team. I. And, and you want all the people on your team to be like gung-ho over the moon, super excited about your book, and so what you're getting with that no, is not really a, this is bad. I don't like it. It's just this isn't. That cheerleader for you, and that's helping you weed it out until you find the person that is, you know, and then that person, you know, might be your agent, might be your editor, but all of these people are going to be massive cheerleaders for you. And, and the no is just a, you know, it's, it's just like you, if you go to a bookstore or you're browsing online or however you. Buy your books or read your books. You know, it's not like if you go to a shelf and you're like, I'm gonna buy a book today. And you pick up one and you read the back and it's not right for you. Right. Sometimes it might just not be right for you that day, but you're certainly not like throwing it on the floor and going, this is trash and walking away. Right. And I think that so many new writers, or writers who are working to build their career. Take every one of those like books that are like put, we put back on the shelf while we're browsing that, that's a massive rejection. Instead of really just a quiet like, oh no, this, you know, this isn't right for me today.'Cause you're looking for that one person who's gonna pick that book up and take it home.
David Gwyn:Yeah. No, I think that's spot on. And I, I love that as, as a place to kind of wrap up here for people to think about as they go about their day and, and just to remember that this, this industry, that that's what this industry is. And it's, it's, it's. Quiet passes from the beginning to the end. You know, whether it's agents all the way down to readers, when your book's on the bookshelf, it's, it's just you're just trying to find a, a section of people who champion your book. You don't need to be for everyone.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:Well, and honestly, it's, it's like friendship or like dating. Pick whatever analogy you want, you know, but you don't wanna be friends with every single person that you've ever met in your life, right? You know, you, you wanna choose those really great ones to be your core friend group, and that's kind of what you're doing here. Like, you gotta go through the other stuff to get to the really great ones. And so yeah, a rejection is really just a step closer to your goal.
David Gwyn:No, I love that. And, and what a great place to, to wrap up. So Chantel, I'll link to, your website in the description, this as always, is such a joy to talk with you. Thank you so much for taking the time.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:Thank you. I appreciate it. I hope to talk to you again soon.
David Gwyn:Yeah, of course. And, and if you're, you're still listening, you're still hanging out with us go down there, check out Chantelle's stuff. You won't be disappointed because like I mentioned, you know, we've talked kind of throughout your career. I, I hadn't, I hadn't realized I hadn't really put together that we've been hanging out through all the little stops along the way,
Chantelle Aimée Osman:We really have. Which is why I realized I hadn't talked to you for a while.
David Gwyn:I know. I know. So it's great as always. So much fun. So if you're, if you're listening to this, go down, check it out. You'll, you'll love the stuff that she puts out. So Chantelle, thanks again.
Chantelle Aimée Osman:Thank you so much. I.
