Thriller 101
A podcast for readers and writers of thriller, mystery, suspense, and crime fiction.
Thriller 101
Literary Agent Lori Galvin Talks Going From Query to Deal: What Agents Need to See Before They Sign You
Literary agent Lori Galvin reveals exactly what makes a query letter irresistible.
She breaks down the specific elements that make agents request materials, and the common mistakes that lead to instant rejections.
Whether you're crafting your first query or your fiftieth, this episode delivers the agent perspective that every fiction writer needs to hear.
What You'll Learn:
- Why manuscript word count can kill your chances instantly
- The test some agents use to evaluate opening pages
- How to prove you're serious about writing in your bio
Click here to learn more about Lori Galvin
Guest Bio: Lori Galvin, has been with Aevitas Creative Management since 2015 and represents a wide variety of bestselling, award-winning, and critically acclaimed writers of both fiction and nonfiction including Wanda M. Morris, Nishita Parekh, and Kwame Onwuachi. Prior to her agenting career, she was an editor at America’s Test Kitchen as well as Houghton Mifflin. She has also worked as a restaurant cook and managed a bed-and-breakfast in coastal Maine. She lives in Massachusetts. Lori only accepts submissions through Query Manager: QueryManager.com/QueryLoriGalvin
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So Lori, I I wanna jump right in here and ask you a question that we were talking about a little bit before we started recording, but I do wanna get your insights here. Tim Miller's into the fall got released and we were talking a little bit about that book because she's gonna be a guest on the third 1 0 1 podcast as well. And I really want to hear about why you decided to sign her book and, and wanted that book to, to be published.
Lori Galvin:Yeah. Thank you David. It's, it's great to be here. Tamara's book, her query came into me on Query manager Query Tracker. and what drew me in is she had everything. In the letter letter that I look for,
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Lori Galvin:was very clear, was very professional. She had a, she had a comp that I, I had actually like, had said that I was looking for more books in this, in this vein. I really. Thought the premise, was, was interesting and you know, about a a family that goes on vacation, camping, wakes up in the morning, the father is not in the tent, and, and it is the beginning of the story.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:it's much more than. A story about a missing person. Like know, in the same way that Laura Daves the last thing he told me.
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Lori Galvin:but I think, and I pitched it this way, it's sort of if, Ashley Audra who is just very visceral and dark, had written the last thing he told me in some, you know, in some ways.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:So I was, I was immediately intrigued by, by the premise, by the comps that she gave. I had read a book about a year before Tim Johns descent,
David Gwyn:Okay.
Lori Galvin:about a girl who disappears while on vacation with her family, and it takes place in Colorado. There's. lot of atmosphere. But again, it's not just about a missing person, it's about family relationships. It, it's about a many things. and I really could see Tamara's book in that, in that same vein,
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:used that as a comp. So I got really excited when.
David Gwyn:Oh, nice.
Lori Galvin:comp because, you know, often people will use the same comps over and over again.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:And I, I know why, you know, they, they do that. But it can be really helpful to not use the comps that are really, you know, canon like
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:girl. So, so yeah. So, and then you know, her. Beautiful opening pages and kept me engaged.
David Gwyn:Yeah. Yeah. No, that's great. That, that makes a lot of sense. Having, having read it, it's interesting. I always love having these conversations with agents around books that they're repping because it feels like it gives insight into, I think for a lot of writers who, who listen to this podcast, it gives a lot of insight into. Just how subjective the, the industry is. So, you know, you just happen to be looking for something. You, it happened to hit at the right time. You know, you just read a book like the year before. And I think that that, and I think that can frustrate writers, but I think in, in a lot of ways it shouldn't, it should be more like that that someone passing on your work is, is not really a reflection of how well you're, you are of a writer you are like how good of a writer you are. It's really more. And it can be, sometimes it is, but sometimes it's more just that just doesn't fit really what, what the agent's looking for. And so I always love having these conversations. I love to get like the kind of peek behind the curtain from the, from the agent side. Can you talk a little bit more about what genres you're looking for?
Lori Galvin:Yeah. Before I do that, I just wanna be clear that I
David Gwyn:Yeah,
Lori Galvin:necessarily for a book about a missing person.
David Gwyn:yeah.
Lori Galvin:that that happened to be true. It was more like the vibe.
David Gwyn:Oh, nice.
Lori Galvin:the, you know, the atmosphere I was looking for the the fact that it was a thriller, but it was about something else. So anyway,
David Gwyn:That's very cool.
Lori Galvin:wanna,'cause I, I, I, I'm not that usually. And I can't be that specific because it
David Gwyn:Yeah, of
Lori Galvin:me.
David Gwyn:course.
Lori Galvin:your question about genres yeah, I mean, I thriller and suspense. I, I do like there to be. A resolution. It doesn't have, you know, need to be a happily ever after Hollywood type ending. But I don't want people to feel super. Dejected when they close the book. That is not what a lot of, a lot of readers are, are looking for, frankly. And you know, I, I would say just across genre, because I also enjoy historical, mostly 20th century. And there has to be, I don't know, something I. has to be a reason for it to be set in that period. Writers will say, well, I said it in, you know, 1985 because there weren't cell phones. Or the iPhone hadn't been, you know, come out yet. And,
David Gwyn:Okay.
Lori Galvin:doesn't really like work in pitching that to an editor or
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:interested in that,
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:it's set in the eighties because it has something to do with. The culture at the time that moves the story forward then, you know, that, that's great. That's
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:I also like, you know what a lot of people call book club fiction and, you know, those can cross over, they can be thriller mystery or historical or speculative fiction, but. Grounded where there's just a lot to talk about. You
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:I, I kind of, I definitely feel that way about, I guess a lot of my clients they're, I don't know. I just feel like there's a lot of like, meat on the bone,
David Gwyn:Yep.
Lori Galvin:so so, so, yeah.
David Gwyn:No, I love that. I, I, I think that's that's a good way of, I, it's funny when I interviewing an agent, I like to look at their list. I feel like that is the vibe that I got from, from a lot of the writers that you represent is there's this, if not, if not literary element, like certainly there's an attention to, into, there's an attention to the, the words as much as there is to the plot. And I think that's like for, for writers thinking about agents to pitch. I think that's why it's so important to look at their list. Right? Look at the, look at the, the books that they represent.'Cause I can give you some insights too. And, and so am I understanding this correctly that, that you got Tamara from the slush pile, like she just queried you? Like what? That's amazing. I I love to hear that. I feel like a lot of writers feel like. You need to have an introduction and I'm sure that helps, or like a pitch event, like I'm sure that helps. But it's great to, to hear someone like Tamara because that book has it really seems like it's taken off. I mean, it has. Thousands and thousands of views on, on Amazon. Which is great. Can you talk about, like, generally speaking, the kind of first couple pages of a manuscript as, as you're reading something that you're looking for or something that when you see it makes you want to request more pages?
Lori Galvin:Yeah. It's, know, I was, I was about how. Writing and music are so similar. It's
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Lori Galvin:not gonna make me turn the channel?
David Gwyn:I love that.
Lori Galvin:And. You know, I, or it's like, you know, going through rooms in a house and you're like in a room, everything's comfortable. It, you know, engages your senses, it smells great. Think about the other rooms. You just
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:room or, or that music and, you know, sometimes I think about like, it's kind of crazy, but there's like, there's all sorts of beautiful music, just like, you know, whether it's classical or you know, hard rock or, you know, show tunes. And it's. You, you don't know what it is sometimes, but it's just something that engages you. You know, I, I think about like the Miley Cyrus song Party in the USA, which is just like such a crazy song, but whenever it comes on, I'm like, yeah.
David Gwyn:Right. That's so funny. No, I love that. I think that's really good. I, I, you know, I, I've never heard that one. That's, that's a new one. And I really do like that because I think it's so true. It feels like, to me that really boils down to. Getting lost into a story. And, and I think that as, as an agent, it's, I, again, I go back to this as, as a writer, kind of listening to this podcast, like, that's all agents want. They wanna get lost in your story, just like every reader does. Like every agent became an agent because they were a reader. And I think that the more the more you can bring any, bring a reader into your work the better. And I think there's a trust factor there too. I forget who I was talking to recently, but, I mentioned that when they're reading something like they like to feel like that, that writer has control of the story. Do you find that, that kind of goes hand in hand with what you're talking about here, where you're reading something in the, the writer, you know, you trust that writer to get you to the end. Is that kind of, does that sound kind of similar to what you're looking for?
Lori Galvin:it's about like, you know, peaking your curiosity and
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:that. Going,
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:and then, you know, just en engaging you and making you feel like you're, yeah, you're in the story.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:And you are enjoying that experience.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:you know, interestingly an editor pass on a, a manuscript. That I submitted to her and she said that she was like turning the pages and couldn't wait to find out what was happening. But she said that that superseded her the feeling of being, in the story.
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Lori Galvin:she felt like that need to find out what happened was more important than her experience of. Reading in a
David Gwyn:Oh, interesting.
Lori Galvin:and, and that was the reason for her, her past. But I was, I was glad that she was so specific about that.
David Gwyn:Yeah
Lori Galvin:you know, I, I obviously had a very different experience,
David Gwyn:course. Oh.
Lori Galvin:but it's just, it's, it's something that like, has stuck in my head.'cause I, I hadn't had anyone express that before.
David Gwyn:Yeah. I love that, that you shared that because I've had, I had this experience, this is months ago now, but I was watching a, I don't even remember what movie. I wish I could remember. I was watching a movie. I remember sitting there thinking like, I need to know, I like, I watch a lot of horror movies, my wife and I do, and I was like, I need to know how this ends. But I don't need to know how we get there. And I think, and I didn't know how to articulate that, but I think that's it, right? Like, I need to know who's doing, like, who's killing the other people. But I don't really care that anything else is happening in the middle. I just need to know the end. I think that's really, that's really interesting. I love that. I feel like I'm gonna find that I'm gonna have that, I'm gonna be able to name now that, that experience with storytelling, because I think that that's really. Something that I imagine a lot of people will jive with that that kind of feeling is something that we've all had. And it obviously, you know, it's taste, right? It, it's for some people and it's for not for others. And, and I think that that's, that's really cool to be able to name something like that. And as, and as a writer thinking about, are you. Are you doing enough to entertain or are we rushing to the end? Like have we created one big question that people are trying to get to, or have you created small ones that keep them going from one page to the next? You know, who, who's the killer? Or what happened at the beginning is a big question, but do you have little ones along the way that, that keep satisfying a reader? And I think that's a, that's a really interesting point and something for all writers to really think about. What are your common querying or pitching mistakes that you see? I know there's like the, the very famous ones, but is there anything you're seeing now that stands out to you that you're like, Ooh, you know, writers should really keep an eye on this and not be doing this?
Lori Galvin:Well, I think, you know, keeping the length to, you know, around, I don't know, 400 or so words,
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Lori Galvin:is helpful. I mean, yeah, you. It, it, it's not a hard and fast rule, but just keep an eye on it because if you've got a lot in there that's extraneous, I think it can yeah, it, it can just not feel as great
David Gwyn:Mm-hmm.
Lori Galvin:who, or for an agent who has many of these to get through. I would say. What writers could do and which what I see that they don't do enough, and I wish they would, is include information in your bio that. Tells me that you are the, the right person to write this
David Gwyn:Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lori Galvin:Whether that's you know, say it's a legal thriller and you're a lawyer, or, you've been, you know, in, in writing groups and, you know, you've been working on this. Like, I, I just, I want to see some, indication that you're serious about your writing.
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Lori Galvin:not talking about like, you don't need to say, oh, I've been. You know, published in X, Y, and Z journal or, you know, but of course, you know, if, if, if you have, that's fine to include, but I'm not necessarily looking for that.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:I really want to know that you are serious about your writing.
David Gwyn:Yeah. Yeah. That's very cool. I, I, I think the length of the query is one I talk about a lot. With, with my community members. They're, they're, a lot of them are pitching and querying right now, and I have a sneaking suspicion that shorter is way better. And I think that is, that's a tough thing to do as a writer, but. I often remind them that I think a lot of people talk about queries as if they're the back cover of the book or like the inside flap. And I think that those are actually different things. I think that there are a lot of elements that are similar, but you're actually doing something different when it comes to pitching your book to an agent than you are when you're pitching your book to your reader. And again, there's a ton of overlap, but it's not entirely overlapped. And I think a lot of them look at the blurbs on the back of the book and they're like, look, it's. You whatever, 400 words or whatever. And I'm like, no, cut it in half. Like cut it in half because all you're doing, all it's doing for you as a, as a, as an agent is it just enough to get you to wanna read the the story? And I think the faster that an, that a writer can get you there, the better. You don't need more information. It's just the right amount of information. And I think that's so hard. So I love that you said that about length because I think that. I know it's, it's hard. I've been there. It, it's, it's hard to query something. That you've spent, you know, all these, this time on and all these thousands of words, and you're like, I wrote, you know, 80,000 whatever it is, words like, how do I boil that down? But it's, but it's not, again, you're not, you're just trying to get them to do the next thing, which is read your first page. And the first page, the only job of the first page is to get them to read the second and the third. And like that just it ha that has to be the mindset. So I love that you brought that up. Are you seeing a lot of queries that far exceed what you'd think of in terms of word count? Like for, for that, for that query?
Lori Galvin:do. And I also see a lot of word counts that are outside the norms. something that's, you know, 45, 50,000
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Lori Galvin:130,000.
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Lori Galvin:And that is. Like really tough for agents because especially sometimes people actually say in their, in their, their letter, I know this is too long, but I need guidance on
David Gwyn:Sure.
Lori Galvin:that's not, you know, you should try to, you know, I'd encourage writers to think about that before.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:And you know, I definitely expect to do some editorial work and I have definitely helped people cut back. But like if you're outside, like way outside, that's, that can be tough.
David Gwyn:Yeah, I, I hear that it's a lot. I, I know that there's a, there's been a shift in recent years and, and, and, you know, way better than I do where editors are looking for things that are more polished than. 20, 30 years ago. And
Lori Galvin:I.
David Gwyn:that means agents need to look for something that is a little bit more polished. And that means writers need. And I think like I, I hear a lot of writers talking about that in like a complaining way, but the way I feel about, it's kinda like what you said with. Which is, well, now you have the internet. You don't have to find a, a writing group that happens to be local and write in your same genre. It's like, go on the internet, like find a group who can help you with this. The, the tools are there for you to like, you, like you said, there are tools are there. You're not gonna get it to a a hundred percent. You, you, you're gonna rely on, on your agents to do some work. But you can, you can figure out why your book is too long. Like you, someone, there's someone out there who can help you say, why. 130,000 words or 110,000 words and, and where you can cut places. Like that's the work that we are in control of as writers and we need to be in control of, and we need to like take that on. So I love that you mentioned that because I think that writers think of it more like, oh, you know, this is the agent should be doing. I'm like, no, because on their end they're getting the same thing from editors. They're everyone's, everyone's strapped right now for time. And, and it's really difficult. So any other, any other last second advice for aspiring writers?
Lori Galvin:just on on that issue I recently discovered through a couple of my colleagues that query manager, you can set defaults
David Gwyn:Hmm.
Lori Galvin:the length of the, of the letter.
David Gwyn:Oh wow.
Lori Galvin:the, the length of the manuscript. And didn't realize that. And it's, it's depends upon genre on
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:the length of the manuscript. I don't represent fantasy, but you know, a lot of,
David Gwyn:That makes sense.
Lori Galvin:building and
David Gwyn:Sure.
Lori Galvin:longer. Y you know, we're talking about it. We're, we were like, oh my gosh, this is gonna change my life. I, I won't have any more two manuscripts to, you know,
David Gwyn:Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. Is that, and is that a new feature?
Lori Galvin:I dunno if it's new,
David Gwyn:Okay. I.
Lori Galvin:it, it must have been some time in the past year or maybe six months. But so I have set those
David Gwyn:Nice.
Lori Galvin:not to be, and, and they actually say it in query manager, try not to be too strict with it.
David Gwyn:Of course.
Lori Galvin:I give a little bit of room,
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:But I, I was getting 200,000 word manuscripts and
David Gwyn:Wow.
Lori Galvin:so
David Gwyn:Wow.
Lori Galvin:yeah.
David Gwyn:Yeah, that's a, that's, that's really, I mean, again, I, I think people listening to this are, are doing the, the hard work of, you know, educating themselves and, and getting to a place, you know, listening to this podcast and, and listening to you. Hopefully they're, they're taking notes safely if, if they're driving, but wait till after. But and thinking about, you know, they're, the way that they're coming across to an agent, because I, I think too, there's a lot of information out there, and if you're somebody who's showing up in an inbox with a. Extremely long query letter or way over, or way under a word count. I, your writing could be good, but you're signaling that you don't really understand the industry and where it's going and, and what's, what's working right now. And so I think that's the other part of it too, that, that, I don't know as, as an agent if you're, if you're thinking about that part of it yet, but I certainly would be, which is like, does this person really understand where we are right now in the industry? And in this genre?
Lori Galvin:right. Do. That's that's exactly right.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:and I, I appre so appreciate it when I can tell when somebody has done their research
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:Yeah. Fantastic. And it
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:work with them.
David Gwyn:That's awesome. L Lori, I, I could literally talk to you all night. This has, this has been so much fun. I, I always enjoy talking to you. You have so many great insights. But I think also you explain it in a way that makes a lot of sense. So thank you so much for hanging out today.
Lori Galvin:Thank you.
David Gwyn:Yeah. Great. And then my last question for you is just if, if people wanna query you, it sounds like Query Manager is the best place to, to go.
Lori Galvin:the best place.
David Gwyn:Good.
Lori Galvin:and I, and I feel like I've gotten a handle on managing my queries. I will,
David Gwyn:Nice.
Lori Galvin:every once in a while,
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:for too long, but just
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:make sure that I am, am catching up. And I've been doing that for almost a year now, using this system.
David Gwyn:Yeah.
Lori Galvin:on, on social media. I'll sometimes announce. I'm closing then I'll be
David Gwyn:Okay.
Lori Galvin:at, at
David Gwyn:Nice.
Lori Galvin:so, yeah.
David Gwyn:So, so there you go. If you're listening check out social media, check out Lori's career manager and Lori, this is great as always. Hopefully we'll, we'll chat again soon.
Lori Galvin:Thanks David.
